Thursday, 28 August 2008

pedigree dogs exposed day 9

Blogging on a blackberry is never ideal, but as there is no WI fi here and this is the one place on earth that internet cafés are as rare as hen's teeth it's my only link with the outside world!
I couldn't tune in to the kc live webchat, could you? And I still can't get the transcript from their site. Did anyone get a question through? Our office tried and couldn't. Anyone else had the same thing happen? We couldn't even tune in to passivelt observe. What was their defence of the 90 per cent healthy figure despite their own health census saying just 66per cent?
Before I strain my thumb on this tiny keyboard I'm signing off!

13 comments:

Mike Cooke said...

Hello Beverley,

I changed my whole day around to join in the web 'chat' and put my questions.
Should have been on the road but was in the office staring at a screen that would not let me in or even observe.
Were they over subscribed or was the whole thing simply a stunt?

Had all sorts of questions about the amount of funds the much vaunted KC Chraritable Trust were actually investing in genetic research.
Looks to me like something in the region of £2 million over 21 years, which strikes me as 'not a lot' in research terms.
Also curious as to why three of the universities the
Trust has given grants to are associated with one of the Trustees and why the Blue Cross, again associated with one of the trustees, have received so much funding from the Trust.
Probably very good reasons, but my curiousity is aroused.

Had many other questions too, including the one you mention about health figure discrepancies.

Couldn't ask those questions and like you, found the whole thing rather frustrating, even more so because there still seems to be no information available anywhere about what went on for those of us unable to join in.

So I suspect that while we wait with baited breath, the powers within the KC are preparing a carefully worded press release about the effectiveness of the event and how many are now reassured - or perhaps I have become just that little bit too cynical about the way they work.

Regards,

Mike
BCR

Clare said...

In case you've missed it, someone has posted a link to the webchat at the foot of the previous blog page "....Day 1 Scotland"

Anonymous said...

Beverley, this is the link to the web chat, if you are able to access it. it is a full recording of 30mins.
I hope you are having a lovely time in your villa!

http://www.webchats.tv/chats/Petcare/wwwthekennelcluborguk

Rose said...

Beverley,
here is the link to the recording of the thirty minute web chat.
http://www.webchats.tv/chats/Petcare/wwwthekennelcluborguk

I hope you are enjoying your holiday!

Beverley Cuddy said...

Still can't access it! Is it just me but it still says transcript unavailable when I click the link. Perhaps I'm banned, wouldn't be the first time the kc has banned is after all! I hear that inneeding in farm animals was being mentioned as a defence of line breeding(in the dog press not the mysterious web chat). Forgive me but as we eat most farm animals a long and healthy life would be a little tricky to prove!

Mina said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mina said...

Blogger Mina said...

I read somewhere the transcripts can take a few days to go live.

If you've got a media player on your blackberry, I've got a link that might work as it will open the player directly.

mms://groovyg.edgestreams.net/groovyg/clients/Markettiers4dc/webchats/12425/12425_kennelclub_wc_43_v3webchats_278k001.wmv#0;1.000;1888696;0;1:2;31:2, or try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn2WPp7l1n0

icr said...

Here's Terrierman on farm animals:
http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2008/08/wonder-what-their-coefficient-of.html
(...)
"On the farm, things took a different turn. The inbreeding of farm stock began earlier than with dogs, but was no less intense.

Because farm herds are large and often kept by families for generations, farmers were able to "tease out" data indicating drops in production, increases in mortality, declining fecundity, and a steady rise in disease and illness.

Inbreeding, which had initially boosted production, now appeared to be reducing it.

Because farmers had a clear "steak and eggs" axis for evaluation of stock, they were ready and willing to outcross to achieve the best results for their needs and their land. Consumers, after all, do not much care what breed of chicken their eggs come from, or what "champion" bull sired their steak.

Through experimentation, farmers discovered that outcrosses and hybrids of two "pure" types produce as well or better, while remaining more disease resistant, more fecund, and longer-lived than deeply homogeneous stock.

What may appear to be a pure Angus (the most common breed of beef cattle in the world) is likely to have a wide variety of cattle genes coursing through its system. In fact, entire breeds of cattle are now kept solely for their outcross potential. On today's farms the cattle in the field may be Brangus (Brahman-Angus crosses), Braford (Brahmam-Hereford crosses), Beefmasters (a cross of Hereford, Shorthorn and Brahman), or any other combination or mix.

Farmers are not alone in favoring a certain degree of heterogeneity. In top winning race horses, a 5% coefficient of inbreeding is considered high. Though much is made of the stud fees paid for the services of retired winners, most of the offspring of these champion horses are not all that distinguished, and lighting is rarely caught twice in a bottle by the same breeder.

The evidence is clear, dog show people have created a perverse and irrational cult divorced from reality.

Julia said...

Hi Beverley,
hope you have managed to see the webcast. I put in at least four questions, but they were obviously too critical of the KC to air. One was about stopping judges giving prizes to obviously deformed dogs (the GSD).
The two KC people were very much on the defensive but trying not to look as though they were.
It annoys me that they keep going on about how much they have done, when ordinary people like me have known about the Cavalier's problems and crippled GSDs for years. ~Both breeds could have been sorted out by now.
If every GSD breeder knew they would never get a prize for a wedge-shaped dog, or be able to register the puppies born of a wedge-shaped mother, they would instantly revert to the straight-backed type.
The KC don't seem to realise that they have the power to change things.
What show breeders and the KC need to do is look at how the breeders of working dogs get such healthy specimens.
I'm thinking of the working cockers, which apparently are considered healthy.
They certainly have good phsiques and no exaggerations. They look as a spaniel should look.
Julia

icr said...

On the topic of those farm animals, i found something relevant by SV judge Fred Lanting:
http://siriusdog.com/articles/inbreeding-linebreeding-diversity-genes.htm
(...)
In livestock breeding, 6.25% is often used as an upper limit for an acceptable level of inbreeding in a population. This is not always the case, and should not automatically be assumed as a limit for dogs, but is a good starting point to consider.
(...)

PetStreet said...

Hi Beverley - I see you have been advised about accessing the webchat. The service providers obviously underestimated the interest there would be - no one i knew could view it live. Also it was a Kennnel Club sponsored event which might possibly have influenced the questions asked.

As you know I run the PetStreet website and will be interviewing Caroline Kisko around the 15th Sept. Maybe you or your readers might suggest questions to ask her that are short, succinct and really get to the point.

PetStreet has also come up with a proposal that I would like to take further - namely investigating making a civil claim using the Sale of Goods Act 1979 to prosecute a breeder who knowingly sold a dog with a congenital abnormality without fully declaring the dogs health issues.

I would also like to see the Kennel Club produce a clear contract of sale that both parties sign, that ensures the breeder declares the health issues and the purchaser is aware of them.

I will also soon be interviewing Jemima Harrison, who made the BBC film to ask about the response to her film.

Maurice Melzak
editor@petstreet.co.uk
http://www.petstreet.co.uk/

Anonymous said...

Hello!
I'm Leah. I have a black Labrador (and I assure you she is purebred) called Rose.
I was so shocked about the state of our world's pedigree dogs I was determined to do something. I enrolled at an animal shelter and wrote an essay about the mess dogs are in. My whole family love dogs and my grandmother has a white GSD, Reba. Her breeder was obviously sane, since she didn't cull Reba or any of her siblings. I think the most shocking bit of Pedigree Dogs Exposed was when we heard about the culling of perfectly healthy dogs. The Rohdsian Ridgeback is a beautiful breed. Why cull them just because they have no ridge?
I am outraged by the KC's doing. They must either stop inbreeding, or try and turn things around, from bad to good. Also, flat-faced breeds are in desperate trouble. Please do something!

I support Pedigree Dogs Exposed 100000000 percent!

Leah.

SatansLittleHelper said...

Hi Im Becks. I own a totally fabulous black Standard Poodle called Zeus who is now 3 and a hlaf and the absolute love of my life. Previous to him my family owned Cavaliers for years. We never had any probs with SM but did have several Cavs with MVD :-(
I saw Pedigree Dogs Exposed and cried from pretty much the moment it started til the moment it finished. I breed parrots and there is a quote used by the Gabriel Foundation for parrots which is "Many have forgotten this truth but you must not forget, you remain responsible forever for what you have tamed"...I think this can, in part, be related to our pedigree breeds of dog too. I am willing to help lobby the KC for all Im worth on this, how dare we, as humans, cause so much pain and suffering to "mans best friend"..?? That HE may be, but we certainly arent his.