Monday, 3 November 2008

Forum or against?

Do you remember that Monty Python sketch, "do you want a 5 or 10 minute argument?" Well certain dog forums do remind me of that only minus the humour.
Why can't we all put the stereotypes aside, stop routinely putting on the uniforms of war. It's a bit depressing really. Isn't this how we got the Northern Ireland troubles, the Middle East? Can't we just all sit down with a cup of tea and find the things we agree on rather than picking at scabs?
Or is it just the gloomy weather and the fact it's Monday morning and there was nowhere to stop outside the coffee shop on my way into work!
Anyway - here's what Spellweaver has come up with after many days of brooding. Guess I'm meant to respond so that she/he can come back at me again with further evidence of my lying cheating ways for me to counter until one of us lets the other have the last word.
I could just surprise her/him by saying, "How foolish am I? You are obviously right - nothing needs to change, everything is just fine and dandy for dogs, safest possible hands all along, don't know what I was getting so worked up about these last 20 years. SM - just a headache. Soft palate resection - minor op, get over it! Genetic diversity - what a joke, inbreeding is obviously the way to go..."
Doesn't really matter what I say to people like her/him does it in the grand scheme of things? It's not like they are simply misguided, that if you talk to them for long enough you'll find the common ground. How long do I invest? Two hours, two days, two weeks? Too long?
Sometimes in a war you have to see the whole battlefield rather than get obsessed with the snipers. But hey - I'd much rather be a pacifist, but with people like Spellweaver spinning away it's rather tempting to get the nukes out - even if you were always more of a Greenham Common type of girl.

Take the blood pressure tablets before reading folks... deep sigh.

Beverley – I feel I must answer your reply. You say:
Now exactly what "lies" have I spread about the Kennel Club?
You can't accuse people of lying without evidence. That is so strong!!!
I thought I would have to trawl through various articles to find evidence to support the fact that I feel you spread lies about the Kennel Club, but then in a later post you yourself save me the bother by going on to give some excellent examples of what I mean.
For example – you say that “the whole world of science united to say "get your finger out"” – that is just not true! The whole world of science did nothing of the sort – here are links to several articles which show support for the Kennel Club from several scientific organisations:
http://www.petforums.co.uk/pet-news/...nnel-club.html
http://www.petforums.co.uk/pet-news/...nnel-club.html
http://www.petforums.co.uk/pet-news/...nnel-club.html
http://www.petforums.co.uk/pet-news/...nnel-club.html
So when you write “the whole world of science united to say "get your finger out"” you were not stating the truth.
In the same post you then go on to give some more really excellent examples of why I accused you. You state:
“and we had a powerful BBC documentary they finally listened and we got action”
“They didn't move when it was done from within, from without by just a few people - they only started moving when the general public started screaming and welfare organisations started distancing themselves.”
““I am very aware of what they did in the past - usually the bare minimum”
“The KC is not a little tiny organisation, it should have been keeping abreast of change and protecting our dogs future. They had the money and the resources - just not the will.”
The articles in the web references above clearly show that the Kennel Club was very much on the ball with regard to aiming to eradicate inherited diseases in dogs by the appliance of scientific knowledge, and for a number of years has been focusing on finding the genetic abnormalities responsible for a range of inherited diseases and then developing screening tests to identify the dogs that have these abnormal genes. In addition, any visit to the Kennel Club website will show all the different initiatives for all dogs – pedigrees and non-pedigrees – and dog owners and dog owners’ rights - that The Kennel Club has instigated and that have also been ongoing for a number of years.
So when you state that they were not keeping abreast, that they were doing the bare minimum, and that they only started moving after the PDE programme, again, you were not telling the truth.
I hope these examples help you to understand why I feel that you do not always tell the truth about the Kennel Club, and that I was not merely attacking you as a person, but rather I was contesting the views that you hold and freely write and talk about.
You admirably show why someone in the media not telling the truth makes me so angry when you state:
Prejudice needs confronting - imagine all the people who read your words and assumed them to be true who then go on to repeat what you did.
I agree with your statement there – but just how much more does this apply to someone like yourself, who has the benefit of owning a small part of the doggy media? You have more of a responsibility than most to write the truth, because how many more people are going to read what you write compared to the people who read what I write?
And when you ask “ How else do I clear my name? If I don't confront each person that casually accuses me” - I feel a good way to clear your name would be to actually stop doing these things.
I’ve posted this in your profile message section because then I know you will be notified by the Petforums System that I have replied. However, as there has been the odd poster who has asked on the thread for a reply from me to your post, I am also going to post it on the forum.
Spellweaver

Have I got the energy to educate "Spellweaver" to see the difference between PR spin and fact? And do you think he/she really wants to take those rose coloured spectacles off?
Do I write an epic of JKRowling proportions to tell her/him exactly how the KC has historically not done enough. Do I waste yet another morning looking back and cataloging the missed opportunities for reform to attempt to gain her/his approval?
Do you think he or she would be able to ponder why the KC is now attempting to reform at such a breakneck speed if there's simply no need and everything was perfectly tickety boo before?
The KC could have even added my name to the list of people supporting the Kennel Club on their website - doesn't mean all the people on that list think they've done enough these last twenty years - we just all want them to do better in the future as no KC is even worse than the one we've got.

I don't know, it may just be my mood - but I'm finding it hard to take seriously someone who hides behind the moniker Spellweaver while lobbing insults.
Probably time for some caffeine before I bite someone....!

Just had an email from the forum administrator. Seems Spellweaver has had her/his wand taken off them. All the posts accusing me of lying have disappeared - as well as mine complaining about being called a liar. Suspect he's phoned a legal helpline and realised that someone anonymous calling someone very real a liar could get expensive. So I've no reason not to get on with my work after all... no excuse to waste any more of the morning having a go at Spellweaver it seems - unless he/she would like to move the argument to here? And would that be a five minute or a 10 minute argument?

7 comments:

Jan said...

I regret that I was the "odd newbie" who posted - wasn't worth it really. Still, I am pleased that Spellweavers post have been taken off.

I wasn't intending to respond again - in fact I wrote to the board's admininstrators yesterday to ask to cancel my membership as I had only joined as I was upset about this member's post. I did get a message of support from another board member though, which was nice of them.

I will confine my efforts to more useful activities in future!

Beverley Cuddy said...

Hi Jan

Thank you for supporting me, it's hard to know what is the best thing to do with people like Spellweaver - do we spend ages on each problem person or not worry about what they say and fight the larger battles?

Guess there's a midpath somewhere! It's just so easy to give and roll up your sleeves and get stuck in!

Cheers
Beverley

pets4homes said...

Hi,

Ive deleted all the comments from the forum now.

Mark

alfmcmalf said...

I think you are right to challenge anything that is incorrect and libellous. But yes I would appreciate it if your energy goes into the exemplary campaign you conduct through Dogs Today.

I get caught up myself in circuitous arguments. Many breeders do not want to raise their heads out of the sand. So lets find some we can work with. More and more enlightened breeders are speaking out and they will be the ones that can eventually really move the KC forward. And they are of course the ones whose puppy lists we should be joining when we decide to bring a new dog into our families. We should avoid the "flat earthers" like Spellweaver.

Anonymous said...

While you're at it Beverley, could you have a word with the chaps on the K9 forum?
If you believe posters should be calling a truce - then a little word in their ears about inviting comment from 'breeders' then hurling personal abuse at them, may help with unity.
I dared to spell out the catalogue of measures I take to produce the healthiest happiest puppies I can and was rigourously accused of protesting TOO MUCH - described as " very suspicious".
Despite asking " what more would you have me do?"

Don't you feel that unity will be too boring for some?

Anonymous said...

Agree totally with the last post about the K9 Forum. I also went on and spelt out exactly what is a good breeder, the difference between good and bad breeders and exactly what I do when I breed a litter. In response I was also lumped in with bad breeders and several comments that I made were completely taken out of context. I work in Animal Welfare and was insulted because I choose to breed my own dogs. I was trying to explain that the best chance to get a healthy pedigree dog was to go to a breeder who carries out all of the relevant health tests, I tried to point out that unfortunately the pedigree dogs that end up in rescue are very likely to have come from irresponsible breeders and puppy farms so were more likely to be unhealthy. Fact, not my fault as a breeder. I was shouted down and insulted. I give up and will not be commenting on that forum or any other connected with Ryan O'Meara who as far as I am concerned is just building himself empires. His attitude is backfiring as can be seen by the lack of responses lately on the forum, even to important and distressing stories for example dogs being shot and killed etc. I hope he enjoys talking to himself as soon that is all he will have.

I have in the past had plenty of rescue animals including dogs but prefer now to breed my own and currently have 4 generations on my sofa.

I have never seen such childish behaviour that is being exhibited on message boards at present.

No responsible breeder is condoning any irresponsible breeders. Yes there are problems in some Pedigree breeds but credit should have been given to the vast amount that was being done. All that programme has done is send people into the arms of the puppy farmers, as far as the general public is concerned, if they don't show or KC register they must be ok. Beverley have you been and looked on epupz recently and seen the ludicrous claims that are being stated on the back of that programme?

Ryan O'Meara takes every opportunity however small to slag of the KC and pedigree dog breeders.

Ryan if you are reading this, please get over yourself, even Beverley has called a cease fire for the moment.

Jan said...

I don't read the K9 forum on a regular basis, but I am disappointed to hear that anybody is criticising those breeders who are doing all they can for dog health, and who are prepared to talk about it.

I would be delighted to see more Cavalier breeders who MRI scan and breed to the recommended protocols shout about it from the rooftops. But if they are going to get hassle from both other breeders and pet owners there isn't much hope of this.

I know that some Cavalier breeders refuse to scan for SM so they are going to be aggravated about those who advertise they do. I would have hoped though, that pet owners would be supporting and encouraging good breeders who are prepared to come forward and talk about how they are breeding.

Comments like those quoted really aren't going to help anyone.